The benefits of updating your online presence and discussing the future of web development

This episode marks the final instalment of the podcast for 2020 as well as the end of our third season of the show. We couldn’t be more proud of all we have accomplished during this tumultuous year and we would like to extend a thank you to all of our listeners for allowing us to work on a project that we are so passionate about. To celebrate this milestone, we decided to bring on Damiane Muller, Futuretheory’s co-founder and lead developer, to reflect on our recent website launch. In the initial portion of this episode, Damiane covers why Futuretheory needed an updated online presence, the tools he used to develop our new website, and how this project was intimately connected with our revised content marketing strategy. Additionally, Germaine and Damiane discuss why Futuretheory decided to continue using WordPress as its development platform, citing that its open-source nature continues to make creating customised and secure solutions for clients extremely simple. Finally, the episode concludes with Damiane discussing future development trends such as the growing importance of SSL and changes to search engine rankings.

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What we talk about

  • Reflecting on Futuretheory’s new website
  • The longterm viability of WordPress
  • Content marketing
  • The future of website development

Links from this episode


Disclaimer: This transcript was generated automatically and as such, may contain various spelling and syntax errors.
Germaine: [00:00:00] Hello, Future Tribe. Welcome to the last episode of the podcast for 2020 or 2020, we are not sure about what will be happening in 2021. Um, in terms of season four ofthe podcast, but on this week’s episode, as promised at the start of season three, um, when we had Kelsey who’s, um, our marketing communications person involved on in the episode this week, we’ve got Damiane who’s part owner co-founder of Futuretheory and also lead developer at Futuretheory .
[00:01:27] How are you Damiane?
[00:01:29] Damiane: [00:01:29] I’m good. How are you?
[00:01:30] Germaine: [00:01:30] Good. Thank you. So Damiane is joining us, um, while he’s on holidays, which is, which is nice. It’s, it’s a bit of a funny time of year, I think, with, with everything happening with the illness and all that. So we’ve just sort of managed to squeeze this in, to get this episode recorded.
[00:01:50] Um, get into. How our rebrand has gone. How any website has gone ask Damiane a few more, I guess, developer type questions for anyone looking at building a new website and getting a website in the future as well, but let’s roll into a Damiane on your, on your end. What have, what has your, I guess, feeling being around the rebrand for future theory and the new website, and what does that mean for you?
[00:02:15] Damiane: [00:02:15] Well, I guess we haven’t moved too quick on things while we’ve.
[00:02:20] Germaine: [00:02:20] Rebranded.
[00:02:21] Damiane: [00:02:21] We haven’t really pushed all the new brand out as, um, as dramatically as we could have at this stage, I guess. Uh, everything’s sort of wet, we’re sort of testing the waters.
[00:02:34] Germaine: [00:02:34] Um, uh, I, I guess it’s just the fact that we haven’t sort of just pushed everything out and done a, done a wholesale change across everything.
[00:02:43] Um, we’ve taken a bit of a slower approach to it. Um,
[00:02:47] Damiane: [00:02:47] yeah. Yeah. We’ve, we’ve led out. I mean, the new websites are up, but it’s still in development. Um,
[00:02:55] Germaine: [00:02:55] there’s really no frills.
[00:02:56] Damiane: [00:02:56] It’s all based around the content at this stage. Um, and we’ll be adding to it, you know, over the, over the next few months. I mean,
[00:03:04] Germaine: [00:03:04] really we’ll be adding to it every or every second day.
[00:03:08] Yeah. Yeah. So like we’ve got Kelsey, who’s working, who’s got a content plan and I guess it’s a little bit different for us. Versus the average sort of client who we work with because we have in-house capacity. Um, we can, in-house do sort of incremental changes without necessarily costing a lot of money.
[00:03:27] Um, or that’s it, we can work quickly.
[00:03:30] Damiane: [00:03:30] There’s no need for approvals. As such,
[00:03:33] Germaine: [00:03:33] um, so we can build it up slowly. There is internal approval, but it’s not the same way it has to go to a client and the client, client representative has stopped someone else and, and so on and so forth. But saying that, I guess, You know, this move to a new website has we’ve.
[00:03:50] We tried not to change a whole lot because we do expect a website to take a bit of a hit when we move to a new site, um, in terms of like search rankings and where we popping up, we chatted about this before we hopped on the call. It’s it’s inconclusive as far as I’m concerned, because yeah, our numbers for November and December are higher than October.
[00:04:17] A little bit lower than September, but last year, I
[00:04:20] Damiane: [00:04:20] think
[00:04:20] Germaine: [00:04:20] exactly higher than the same time last year. So I guess it’s inconclusive because of that. Um, we did plan, like I said, to take a hit, which we haven’t, um, which is, which is, I guess, a Testament to us doing a good job of making sure. Making the website migration as seamless as possible in, in Google’s eyes.
[00:04:43] Um, and the way I see it, we, we should be increasing our rankings. Um, moving forward, since we’re focusing more on the inbound marketing side of things, more content, exactly more content. Now, Damien, we built the website on WordPress. You love using WordPress.
[00:05:00] Damiane: [00:05:00] Yeah. Um,
[00:05:01] Germaine: [00:05:01] we were on WordPress
[00:05:02] Damiane: [00:05:02] previously. We’re still on WordPress.
[00:05:05] Germaine: [00:05:05] Um, I think we will, the way it’s being on WordPress for a long time. That’s it. Um, but why
[00:05:11] Damiane: [00:05:11] WordPress is continuing to grow?
[00:05:13] Germaine: [00:05:13] Um, it’s great to develop on,
[00:05:16] Damiane: [00:05:16] um, this is so much it’s open source. So, um, I mean, it’s what we swear by and what we swear by for our clients as well. Um, I mean, we’ve talked about integrating CRMs and, um, Different solutions.
[00:05:31] And having an open source platform to build off is going to make our lives so
[00:05:36] Germaine: [00:05:36] much easier. So for the listeners who don’t know essentially means that it’s the community contributing to the code of, uh, of software. There are like moderators involved, um, to check and make sure that the code is doing what it should and there’s testing and, and, and all that.
[00:05:52] But the idea is it’s essentially like a community built. Or at least it starts off, you know, maybe someone’s spearheads development, but then it, they almost handed over to the community. There are, there are very established, like WordPress is one example of something that’s open source or Udacity is open source software.
[00:06:09] There are open source in web Drupal’s open source. Um, and the biggest benefit around it is that it’s. It’s built by the community. So there might be organizations that provide support and charge for that. But the idea is that you can access it for free if you wanted to work with it doesn’t mean that the support, et cetera, is free.
[00:06:27] It just means that, um, you can actually take the software and run with it for free.
[00:06:32] Damiane: [00:06:32] Yeah. You asked to sit for free and intern. Uh, this sort of, you can give back to the community by developing on it. If you find any bugs, you report them and sort of. Uh, give back how you can.
[00:06:45] Germaine: [00:06:45] Yeah. So, um, I guess that’s the biggest, that’s the biggest reason that we, we continue to work with WordPress.
[00:06:51] I think it also is built in a way that makes a lot of sense. So it’s built in a way that at least in our point of view, um, is easy to expand upon in a logical manner without having to. Like we can manipulate and work with WordPress without having to sort of do too much to modify how it’s inherently set up.
[00:07:11] We tap into existing features within WordPress when we want to customize it for a client. So we ended up with a website that is as close to that original source code as possible, because then when there’s the updates and things like that, we can. Make those updates and get help someone have a more secure, faster website without necessarily having to go in and add a lot of overhead in terms of maintenance.
[00:07:34] Damiane: [00:07:34] Yeah, the platform, the platforms, um, so popular that chances are, if we’re working with the client, they’ve worked on WordPress before, so that makes things easier. Well,
[00:07:44] Germaine: [00:07:44] it’s also really easy to use. I mean, two, three weeks ago I trained one of our clients who was in his eighties. Um, originally we booked in for an hour training session, but we ended up, I think it took us 20 minutes.
[00:07:57] Um, probably 15 minutes if you remove sort of the pleasantries and that sort of idle, chit chat and going off tangents. So would you agree that it’s, it’s very, it’s a logical yeah,
[00:08:09] Damiane: [00:08:09] yeah. Sort of what you see is what you get and if it’s built well, it’s, it’s very good. Yeah.
[00:08:15] Germaine: [00:08:15] Yeah. And then, uh, I guess look at it also from like, The fact that we’ve, I’ve mentioned a number of times that we were really into inbound marketing.
[00:08:23] And I, I personally believe in in-depth inbound marketing as a, as a great strategy, I guess, to showcase that we’ve, I’ve got some stats here, Damiane, I’m not sure if you’ve seen this, but in the last three or four months, we’ve written about nearly 8,000 words of content in articles on our website. And we released over 1,600 minutes of podcast content.
[00:08:44] Yeah. So. What that basically shows is that we’re really investing into sort of our content marketing side of things. And WordPress started life as a blogging platform, um, meaning that they it’s, it’s built for words, it’s built for content. And in my opinion, that that does make it better for, you know, a WordPress site just inherently has more going for it.
[00:09:09] We, in terms of like Google trying to. Find autograph
[00:09:13] Damiane: [00:09:13] on the website content.
[00:09:15] Germaine: [00:09:15] Yeah, yeah, exactly. Read the content that’s within a website. So now there’s more to this than just, um, the fact that WordPress is built for content and you just released content and writing lots of words. Yeah. Yeah. You’re not writing lots of words.
[00:09:29] Just the word count. Yeah. It’s a very intentional, it’s a very, like, there’s a strategy around it and it’s, it’s, it’s again, the kind of stuff that we work with clients on.
[00:10:26] Now I want to keep talking to you about WordPress stuff, Damiane. So for the clients out there, who or the listeners who think about like WordPress and they they’re told that WordPress is a fantastic way to build a website. Now I see it as a bit of a trap because you then think that you just have WordPress and.
[00:10:44] Um, as, you know, just install WordPress and as long as the website’s built on WordPress, it’s going to be a good website. Yeah.
[00:10:51] Damiane: [00:10:51] Well, WordPress comes in so many different forms.
[00:10:54] Germaine: [00:10:54] Um, it’s sort of like saying like, you know, that there are so many different types of cars, you know, the same car can, you know, the same model of, but two different cars.
[00:11:05] One can, one could have crashed more. One could be damaged. One could be, have NG buy one off the shelf.
[00:11:12] Damiane: [00:11:12] You buy one off the shelf or you
[00:11:14] Germaine: [00:11:14] upgrade one, do
[00:11:15] Damiane: [00:11:15] it yourself. Yeah.
[00:11:17] Germaine: [00:11:17] So
[00:11:18] Damiane: [00:11:18] yeah, I think the, one of the trap people fall into is thinking that and at the same thing, and it’s.
[00:11:31] Probably a mistake of WordPress’s made. I think that they’re trying to bring the two platforms close together in terms of how they’re built. So you can transfer between the two. Um,
[00:11:43] Germaine: [00:11:43] is still a full profit organization that takes that peaks up WordPress itself and then builds upon it. It’s um, Yeah, it’s sort of like Chrome, Chrome actually is chromium is the open source form of Chrome that Google picks up and then customizes Android exists open source, but then Google picks up and customizes all that is to say that they’re similar.
[00:12:09] They have similar bones, but they’re not the same. Um, so yeah,
[00:12:14] Damiane: [00:12:14] and Birkenstock or a different solution.
[00:12:17] Germaine: [00:12:17] They’re, they’re, they’re quite different when it comes to sort of the infrastructure and how, what you can and can’t do, and the freedom. So we have resident halls. Well, yeah, the support, I mean, doesn’t really come with.
[00:12:30] Inherent support because it’s not, it’s an open source communities sort of are. Whereas WordPress,
[00:12:35] Damiane: [00:12:35] it’s just a set of files, really where is a monthly service. Um,
[00:12:39] Germaine: [00:12:39] it’s a subscription service it’s essentially
[00:12:41] Damiane: [00:12:41] packed in hosting,
[00:12:43] Germaine: [00:12:43] uh, security, maintenance. Exactly.
[00:12:47] Damiane: [00:12:47] Depending on the, uh, level, uh, it, depending on how much you pay
[00:12:50] Germaine: [00:12:50] plan, when you sign up for, and you know, this is something that I think we’ve talked about in the past a little while ago, garden, if you’re moving in.
[00:12:57] But we actually, I think, right, we actually recorded a podcast episode. A long, long, probably 2017. And I think that part of that was also to do with WordPress. Um, so it’s something that I don’t think we’re ever going to stop talking about it. So it’s a conversation. It’s something that we’re going to continue to sort of bring up and continue to discuss moving forward.
[00:13:19] But yeah.
[00:13:20] Damiane: [00:13:20] Yeah. And WordPress has a lot of, uh, development updates coming up in the future. I think the platforms changing a little bit as well, so I’m sure it’s something we’ll continue to do.
[00:13:30] Germaine: [00:13:30] Yeah. And I guess very quickly, um, to, to summarize what we were talking about, WordPress is fantastic, but just because you build a website on WordPress doesn’t mean that your website’s going to be.
[00:13:42] Fantastic. We, we should also mention, you know, some there’s there’s themes and templates that you can get for WordPress. Some of them are good. Some of them are not so good. Um, just keep that in mind, because all of these things affect, um, the security of the website, because you’re essentially installing like code that other people have created.
[00:14:00] So if they do bad code, then you’re going to inherently have a, uh, worse off website, whether it’s a slow website, whether it’s more bloated with, you know, Junk essentially, um, or the, um, where they, it has security flaws in a worst case scenario.
[00:14:16] Damiane: [00:14:16] Yeah. You’ll often get,
[00:14:17] Germaine: [00:14:17] um, off the shelf,
[00:14:19] Damiane: [00:14:19] you know, themes and templates you can buy for WordPress, but they can sometimes come with a lot of plugins.
[00:14:24] And the more plugins you have, that’s more vulnerabilities that may be there.
[00:14:28] Germaine: [00:14:28] Yeah. Yeah. So for someone listening, who’s looking at getting an off the shelf theme, keep in mind that, you know, a lot of the big things they’re selling point is that you can do whatever you want. I would argue that that’s not what you should look for.
[00:14:42] You should look for a theme that does exactly what you want rather than having all these options, because all those options means that it has to be inherently bloated. There has to be code
[00:14:51] Damiane: [00:14:51] there for, to support those, um, different options. So you’re better off picking, um, what suits you best and. Working from there,
[00:14:59] Germaine: [00:14:59] but yeah, thinking something that looks like you want it to, rather than picking something that could, if you did X, Y, Z, and they changed all these settings.
[00:15:07] So something to keep in mind and, you know, Keep checking out a blog as well, because we’ll be uploading like in, in the latest, um, we’ll be uploading articles, insights, resources around WordPress, for anyone listening around inbound marketing. So with Disney website, that’s something that Damiane and I sat down and sort of put a lot of effort around and put a lot of intention around like operating podcasts directly under the websites that you can listen to.
[00:15:31] It that’s transcripts there for the, for the podcast episodes. There’s like I said, different types of content. Um, and we’re going to keep adding different types of content to the website. Um, yeah, you can leave comments
[00:15:45] Damiane: [00:15:45] and engage on there as
[00:15:46] Germaine: [00:15:46] well. Um, you know, join and take that conversation to our Facebook group as well.
[00:15:52] Now, all the, all the league store, this will we’ll include in, in the, um, description, um, as always any, anything Damien. In the new year that that sort of people should look out for people should, should sort of in terms of websites, development, all those things. Well, coming back to our website
[00:16:14] Damiane: [00:16:14] at the moment, um, a big thing that’s missing is our work that will, um,
[00:16:19] Germaine: [00:16:19] start adding
[00:16:19] Damiane: [00:16:19] on, uh, case studies of all the projects that we’ve
[00:16:23] Germaine: [00:16:23] done over the years
[00:16:24] Damiane: [00:16:24] in terms of websites.
[00:16:26] Um, I think there’s.
[00:16:30] Germaine: [00:16:30] Wait, wait, you have you just spaced
[00:16:32] Damiane: [00:16:32] blank. I’ve completely blank.
[00:16:35] Germaine: [00:16:35] I mean, in terms of websites, um, Again, SSL is going to be continued to be important. So if you don’t have extra DPS on your website, that’s, that’s always been important, but it’s going to increase in importance, keep an eye out.
[00:16:49] Also, I think Google’s going to do a fair bit with the search engine results pages. So keep an eye out for that for yourself. If you’re especially, they’ll get inbound marketing as a marketing opportunity and look at what’s happening with the Facebook ads. Google ads, um, and the antitrust sort of stuff that’s happening as well.
[00:17:06] Because if your business relies on targeting people with ads, it’s gonna, it’s gonna have some impact on that. If, for example, if, if Facebook can no longer with Apple’s new iOS update, just track people without their consent. That means that your targeting is going to be not as good moving forward. So it’s not quite websites, but it’s just marketing in general.
[00:17:29] Keep that in mind. Keep. Keep that, um, sort of keep an eye on what’s happening there because that’s going to change how much, you know, chances are, you’re going to have less targeted ads moving forward. Um, that means they’re just going to have to spend more potentially, um, or come up with other ways to be smart about your advertising and target your advertising.
[00:17:49] Damiane: [00:17:49] Yeah. A big thing I’m noticing, uh, is email SPF and D K I M records not being set up properly.
[00:17:56] Germaine: [00:17:56] So what that means is, um,
[00:17:58] Damiane: [00:17:58] when you send it email. You can authorize your, uh, sending service to, uh, basically say that it came from an authorized place. So, uh, your email address can’t be spoofed, um, or use to send spam.
[00:18:13] And, um, I’m noticing a lot of even bigger agencies almost forgetting to do that or not having their setup. That’s set up correctly. So we use G suite internally and,
[00:18:24] Germaine: [00:18:24] um,
[00:18:25] Damiane: [00:18:25] J suite flags, any emails that
[00:18:28] Germaine: [00:18:28] set up because it’s security, it’s a security concern that it’s actually quite easy. If any of you ever sort of tried it it’s quite easy.
[00:18:37] Like you don’t even have to try to. Act like an email was sent from a specific email address. Like you’d be setting up a, a website, for example, you can just tell that website to send an email from whatever email address you want, this, the DKM and SPF record. Basically our way of checking that you’ll allow to send emails from that domain.
[00:18:55] Um, or from that email address, um,
[00:18:59] Damiane: [00:18:59] having that set up is going to help your delivery rates. If you’re noticing that you’re not getting very many replies or
[00:19:06] Germaine: [00:19:06] that people aren’t receiving. Yeah. They’re saying that they’re not receiving your emails.
[00:19:11] Damiane: [00:19:11] Yeah, it can. It can be your SPF or DK. I am set up. So get in touch with your email provider and make sure that those things
[00:19:18] Germaine: [00:19:18] all with us, if, um, if none of this makes sense to you and you can’t get in touch with your email provider or, you know, they don’t provide that level of support.
[00:19:27] Um, that’s something that we can help you with and some that we can work, um, With you on, um,
[00:19:33] Damiane: [00:19:33] uh, one are the things you mean. I wonder if, talk about hosting websites, um, relevant to you where your business is located. So, um, I know that affects search rankings, um, or Google has suggested that they look at where the server is located.
[00:19:50] Um, when they are crawling websites, um, can you expand on that a little bit?
[00:19:55] Germaine: [00:19:55] Yeah. So basically meaning that, um, if you have a website that say, if you have a business for a website that’s canvas centric, the closer to Canberra, uh, your website is the better it is. So. That’s going to help you load time. Well, yeah, straight off the bat like that, that’s, that’s not even arguable.
[00:20:12] It’s just straight, straight forward. It’s going to help your load times because you’re physically closer. Obviously you need to have an equivalently specked, um, server still. So you can’t have a slower server, like significantly slower server can expect faster load times, of course. But if you were to have, you know, apples to apples, um, that’s definitely going to be true.
[00:20:32] So. Just look out like don’t, don’t host it in the U S unless, you know, unless you have to, for whatever it is it,
[00:20:40] Damiane: [00:20:40] yeah. There’s lots of affordable Australian providers coming up and a lot, lot of established ones like rental IP,
[00:20:46]Germaine: [00:20:46] Ziva.
[00:20:48] Great, um, great services and great service providers based in
[00:20:52] Melbourne and, and us.
[00:20:55] So if you want, we do we’re posting as well. So, um, just get in touch with, um, feature theory. If you, if you have any sort of web hosting needs, anything else, David, before I spring the top 12 on you?
[00:21:06] Damiane: [00:21:06] No, no,
[00:21:07] Germaine: [00:21:07] no, let’s go. Okay. Top three books or podcasts that you recommend.
[00:21:12] Damiane: [00:21:12] Um, top three books,
[00:21:15] Germaine: [00:21:15] um, or podcasts. I know you listen to podcasts.
[00:21:18] Damiane: [00:21:18] Yeah, uh, books. I’ve got how to build a car by Adrian Newey. Now that’s a, that’s a book by a formula one car designer. It’s it was quite interesting to hear about his experiences, um, through innovation and you know, innovation on a daily basis. Another book I’ve listened to recently on audible, uh it’s by David Goggins called.
[00:21:44] Germaine: [00:21:44] Can’t hurt me,
[00:21:45] Damiane: [00:21:45] which is a, it’s a really interesting take on, uh, human potential and a lost book. Um,
[00:21:52] Germaine: [00:21:52] No, I’ve only
[00:21:53] Damiane: [00:21:53] got to
[00:21:54] Germaine: [00:21:54] potentially listen to. Um, is it the F1 podcast that you listened to? Oh yeah. Uh,
[00:21:58] Damiane: [00:21:58] I do listen to a lot of formula, one podcasts, um, the F1 podcast, um, F1 nation. That’s a, just a talk show. Um, but also beyond the cred, um, which is, uh, an more interview style podcast.
[00:22:16] Yeah. Okay. Cool.
[00:22:18] Germaine: [00:22:18] Um, next one, top three software tools that you can’t live without. Let’s make that question more development centric. So what sort of developer software and tools do you is
[00:22:29] Damiane: [00:22:29] a big one for me, coded I live by is visual code street. Yeah.
[00:22:34] Germaine: [00:22:34] Is that open source?
[00:22:35] Damiane: [00:22:35] I believe
[00:22:36] Germaine: [00:22:36] so
[00:22:37] Damiane: [00:22:37] free. Um, I think it’s open source.
[00:22:40] Um,
[00:22:41] Germaine: [00:22:41] yep. Freestyle by Microsoft for windows and Mac. Sorry, iOS. So yeah. Yep. What visual codes code. Anything else?
[00:22:52] Damiane: [00:22:52] Um, in terms of an FTP client I use when SEP these days, it’s a free, um, SFTP and FTP client for windows,
[00:23:01] Germaine: [00:23:01] sorry, Mac
[00:23:02] Damiane: [00:23:02] users, and, uh, really. We had one, I’ve got a host file editor. Now it’s again, an open source software.
[00:23:13] I think you can only find it on GitHub these days, but it’s, it’s great. If you don’t want to fiddle around with the host file, you can use that visual editor to,
[00:23:22] Germaine: [00:23:22] yeah. Especially that last one. It’s a bit more heavy on sort of developer needs or development needs, but, um, something, something useful maybe for you.
[00:23:31] If you’re, if you’re listening and experimenting with websites and need to edit hosts. I was filed the host father die. I love it as well. Um, next one, top three mantras. He tried to live by anything that you try and live by. I guess
[00:23:43] Damiane: [00:23:43] I’ve got
[00:23:43] Germaine: [00:23:43] some very general
[00:23:44] Damiane: [00:23:44] things and, um, I tried to learn, you know, always have a open mindset to learning and absorbing things and gaining new perspectives and ways to do things.
[00:23:55] Yeah, I think
[00:23:57] Germaine: [00:23:57] that’s the big one. That’s the big one
[00:23:59] for
[00:23:59] Damiane: [00:23:59] me. Yeah. I’m always trying to improve my skills every day and, you know, find new approaches to things.
[00:24:06] Germaine: [00:24:06] Yep. Awesome. And then the last one, top three people you follow or study and why?
[00:24:11] Damiane: [00:24:11] Um, Gary V I guess, uh, he’s a big one. He’s, he’s quite consistent with his message, which I really like.
[00:24:20] Um, and you know, he’s always. On the same message, um, be very consistent. I know other people would call them inspirational or motivate. Yeah, I think motivational, but yeah, he just sort of,
[00:24:36] Germaine: [00:24:36] I think
[00:24:36] Damiane: [00:24:36] he a good person to follow. Um,
[00:24:40] Germaine: [00:24:40] yeah. Yeah.
[00:24:41] Damiane: [00:24:41] I have another person would be Tom bill, you, um, impact theory, Kathy, about cost.
[00:24:48] Again, a business guy interviewing, um, other business people. Um, recent podcast episode, I listened to seven tips to finally get a good night’s
[00:24:57] Germaine: [00:24:57] sleep. So
[00:24:59] Damiane: [00:24:59] trying to fix my sleep these days, um,
[00:25:01] Germaine: [00:25:01] Yeah. Anyone else?
[00:25:03] Damiane: [00:25:03] Last one? No, just
[00:25:06] Germaine: [00:25:06] those two, right? I think that’s a solid, solid, um, list. Um, all right. Thanks for sorry.
[00:25:16] It’s all right. It’s um, you, it was still a lot in there. Um, a lot of value. So thanks for joining us. Hope you have a good, good rest of the week, um, which is a bit of a holiday for you.
[00:25:28] Damiane: [00:25:28] Thanks.
[00:25:28] Germaine: [00:25:28] Yeah, I’ve got a week at the coast. Yeah. This is your role. First holiday in a little while.
[00:25:33] Damiane: [00:25:33] Um,
[00:25:34] Germaine: [00:25:34] yeah. And February listening, as I mentioned at the start of this episode, we’re not quite sure yet what we’re going to do with the podcast, but, you know, reach out to us, send us a message or leave a comment.
[00:25:47] Tell us what you think we should do. If there’s anyone you think we should interview. If we should continue in this, this style of. Content. And, um, apart from that, like subscribe all the usual stuff and we look forward to, um, talking to you in the new year. Damiane.
[00:26:03] Damiane: [00:26:03] Thanks, . Merry Christmas.